Podcast 261: Aging Is OK, Don’t Freak Out

When Ryn first met Katja, she was in the habit of inflating her age a bit. Why? Because as an herbalist – at that time – it was preferable to present as older, even as an ‘elder’, if possible. Times have changed, and now “influencerbalists” dominate the social media world’s public face, for herbalism as for so many things. Staying young forever looks almost plausible, when it’s shown through short-form videos on a tiny screen…

It’s not, though. We’ll all age, and that will mean some things don’t work as well as they used to, don’t feel as good as they used to, don’t heal as fast as they used to. We’ll get tired, our hair will thin, our faces will wrinkle. All the amazing new products and one-weird-tricks will not stop these things from happening.

We don’t need to stop them. They’re part of life. In just the same way that yes, it’s OK to be a plus-sized herbalist, it’s OK to be an aging herbalist. Chasing immortality is a fool’s errand, and it can distract both from more effective means of mitigating discomforts, and from the benefits this stage of life brings. (Yes, they exist: perspective, experience, even a peaceful detachment – these are the purview of the elder.) Aging is OK.

We do have some herbs to recommend, though! In this episode we discuss…

• ginseng (Panax ginseng) – Famously an “herb for elders”, and indeed able to raise energy levels, enhance congnition, improve stress responses, and much more. Yet ginseng will be much, much more effective if its influences are supported by nourishing food and frequent low-level movement.
• solomon’s seal (Polygonatum biflorum) – Our very favorite herb for restoring moisture, and thus flexibility, to the joints and connective tissues. You can purchase a solomon’s seal salve from Healing Spirits, or find tinctures, salves, and other sol’seal remedies from Cortesia.
• nervines, e.g. blue vervain (Verbena hastata), hawthorn (Crataegus spp.), heather (Calluna vulgaris), linden (Tilia spp.) – Consider working with nervines both for day-to-day mental & emotional steadiness, but also as aids to intentional introspection. Walking or sitting while pondering your past and present, with the support of nervine herbs, is a practice that will help you process your experiences and understand your current stage of life more deeply.
• demulcents, e.g. linden, marshmallow (Althaea off.), sassafras (Sassafras albidum), elm (Ulmus spp.) – As we age, we tend to dry out! These herbs help us remain fluent and soft. For elders, it’s often good to combine these with carminatives such as fennel, ginger, or cardamom.

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Episode Transcript

Katja (00:13):
Hi, I’m Katja.

Ryn (00:14):
And I’m Ryn.

Katja (00:15):
And we’re here at Commonwealth Holistic Herbalism in Boston, Massachusetts.

Ryn (00:19):
And on the internet everywhere thanks to the power of the podcast. Yes.

Katja (00:25):
You know, babe, we’re getting old.

Ryn (00:28):
So old, very old. Yes, my love. We are getting old.

Katja (00:34):
So, that’s actually what we want to talk about today. We want to talk about aging. It’s okay. Don’t freak out.

Ryn (00:41):
Is that our episode title?

Katja (00:44):
I think that’s the title right there.

Ryn (00:45):
Okay. Cool.

Katja (00:46):
Well, before we jump in, jump right in, why don’t we just quickly do our reclaimer?

Ryn (00:54):
Yeah. So, that’s where we remind you that we are not doctors. We are herbalist and holistic health educators.

Katja (01:00):
The ideas discussed in this podcast do not constitute medical advice. No state or federal authority licenses herbalists in the United States. So, these discussions are for educational purposes only.

Ryn (01:11):
We want to remind you that good health doesn’t mean the same thing for everyone. Good health isn’t an objective standard. It’s defined by your individual needs, your experiences, and your goals. So, keep in mind, we’re not attempting to present a single dogmatic right way that you must adhere to.

Katja (01:28):
Everyone’s body is different. So, the things that we’re talking about may or may not apply directly to you. But we hope that they’ll give you some new information to think about and some ideas to research or experiment with further.

Ryn (01:39):
Finding your way to better health is both your right and your own personal responsibility. That doesn’t mean that you’re alone on the journey, and it doesn’t mean that you’re to blame for your current state of health. But it does mean that the final decision when considering any course of action, whether that was discussed on the internet by your favorite herbalists or prescribed by your favorite physician, it’s still always your choice to make. Yeah.

Aging was Once Valued in Herbalism

Katja (02:03):
I’m really excited to talk about aging today. And specifically… I mean, don’t worry. There’s going to be some herbs because we’re herbalists, right? But specifically, I want to talk about our ideas about aging, and the way that society treats aging, and specifically in the herbal community also. So, when I was young – oh, when I was young – when I was first starting out as an herbalist, age was a good thing. It wasn’t before the internet, but it absolutely was before social media. And it was the kind of thing where older teachers were more valued. And if you were a young teacher, especially a young, woman teacher, the trend was at the time to inflate your age. I’ll just say it. It’s the only industry in the world, I think, where women would inflate their age instead of say that they were younger. But yeah. Younger herbalists used to say they were older than they were. And yes, I did too for a little while. And then 39 happened, and I was like you know what? I’m not doing that anymore. But my point is that that’s how we felt about aging back then. We thought it was cool. I used to talk about this all the time, that wow, to be in an industry where wisdom of age specifically is appreciated and valued. And yeah, I’m not saying that society thought it was great back then.

Ryn (04:02):
At large? No.

Katja (04:04):
Yeah. We’ve always had some trouble with that. But at least in this one place, it was safe and even revered to be an elder. Whew. Fast forward to today, and the wellness influencer version of herbalism.

Ryn (04:23):
It has come for everybody. It has come for the herbalists.

Katja (04:26):
It has come for us all, yes. And I feel like now all of the influencer, social media, TikTok, herbalists, whatever are all like eternal youth. Stay young forever, you know? And sometimes it’s just like this cool face cream will help get rid of your wrinkles. And sometimes it’s like all the way over to I’m infusing the blood of my child so that I will… Okay, that person’s not a nervous list, but that’s like all the way to biohacking.

Ryn (04:58):
No, we do not claim those people.

Katja (04:59):
No, no, no. But that’s how extreme things have become now around you must always be young. You must feel young. If you don’t, you’re doing it wrong, and you’re not natural enough, and all that stuff. And oh, that’s not it. That’s not it. And that’s kind of what I just want to mull over today a little bit.

Ryn (05:26):
Yeah. It’s natural or common – common is the better word here – for people to subconsciously place greater value on people who are more attractive. And usually youth is one of the factors that goes into someone’s determination about how attractive somebody else is, you know? And so this is something that you do need to make a bit of conscious effort about. Yes, even you are susceptible to the biases.

Katja (05:58):
Like societal biases, yeah.

Ryn (06:00):
To the preconditioning, all that kind of thing.

Katja (06:02):
Yeah. I’m not sure that’s necessarily normal. Or maybe it is normal, but just the definition of attractiveness changes over time.

Ryn (06:10):
It does. And space.

Katja (06:12):
Throughout history and yeah.

Ryn (06:13):
Through places.

Katja (06:16):
And it is real, and I can only speak to this experience as a woman. It’s probably different depending on how you move through the world. But definitely as a woman in perimenopause and getting older, I notice that even just in the grocery store or wherever I’m treated differently. It’s true. And I don’t love that. And also, I will admit I do not love all of the effects of aging. I don’t. I do not love all of the effects of perimenopause. So, I want to be clear that it’s not always fun. But it’s also not wrong or necessarily escapable.

Ryn (07:06):
Yeah. In some ways, some but not all of what you’re saying here and have been saying in the last few minutes is similar to things that you raised in that episode you did about being a plus-sized herbalist, right? How in a similar way, if you’re presenting yourself as an herbalist. And you’re saying I have some knowledge. I have some skill. I have some experience I want to share with you. People may not look on that as favorably if you’re plus sized, or if you’re old, or if your voice isn’t very strong, or if your gait is uneven. Or if you don’t look like a healthy, vibrant person who’s brimming with life and can convey that to other people by the force of your gaze.

Katja (07:49):
I’m laughing, but it’s yes. You have nailed it right there.

Ryn (07:53):
Yeah. And again, we’re raising this both to talk about why it’s not accurate, and why it’s important to think around it, and both for your own self-esteem, and your own inner perception of yourself and your work. But also again, because much of this stuff is internalized. And it might be there in you, and it might not become apparent to you until you start to see the grays. Or you start to feel the ache in your back when you just got out of bed wrong. Like what? How can I sit wrong or whatever it is? And so this may be a difficult realization, or you can get started early.

Wear Your Wrinkles Proudly

Katja (08:34):
Yeah. One other reason why this is really important for me to be thinking about, like actively thinking about, is because we’re getting all these messages. I don’t know about your ads. But my ads when I look at Instagram or something like that. Which I try not to do very often, but it happens sometimes. They’re all like makeup for aging skin. You can still be pretty even if you’re old. Oh, are you over 50 and want to lose weight? You know, blah, blah, blah. And first off, there’s not actually anything wrong with wrinkles in fact. A dear friend of mine recently, I was talking about wanting to talk about this on the pod, and she was saying about how in her family, most of the people have died in their fifties. And because of that, for her perspective, being able to wear your wrinkles is a big deal for her. To be able to age because so many people in her family died younger. And the way that she said that was to wear your wrinkles, to be proud to wear your wrinkles, I was like oh my God, that’s beautiful. And also that really hearkens back to how the herbal community was when I first came to it. Being proud to wear your wrinkles, or your gray hair, or your whatever. And yes, of course we want to be comfortable as we can as we move through the world. And we want to keep our bodies supple, and young, and whatever as much as we can. But this idea that if you are aging, if you have a few aches, if you have perimenopausal symptoms, if you have wrinkles, if your hair is thinning or gray, that there’s something wrong with you. You’re aging wrong, and you need this product to fix it.

Ryn (10:43):
Yeah. The let me sell you a solution part is always there in these kind of interactions, right? And that should raise your hackles a little bit.

Katja (10:53):
Yeah. Because the reality is if your hair is thinning, there’s not actually anything wrong with you. Now, you might not like it, and I may not like it for sure. But there isn’t something wrong. That is part of the regular arc of aging. It is okay. Now, you can do something about it if you want to. And it does not have to be natural. You can take whatever action you want. I think that the action I have settled on is at some point if I don’t like how my hair looks anymore, I’ll just shave it and get a wig. But whatever, the actions that you take to feel good about your appearance are not as important as understanding that there isn’t something wrong with you just because you’re aging. You’re allowed to age.

Ryn (11:49):
Right. And this is not us saying any person at any moment of any life who suddenly finds their hair falling out in massive clumps is totally fine and should not worry about it at all, right? There are of course circumstances in which that is an indicator of a deeper problem. And we can take some steps, and hopefully resolve that, and okay, yeah. But you get that that’s not what we’re talking about.

Katja (12:09):
Right. No, I’m really in that parameter of normal aging. It’s normal if your sleep patterns change. It is normal if you move a little slower through life. All those things are normal. And it’s fantastic if you are the kind of person who is 70 years old, hopping in the kayak, doing all the things. That is fantastic. And ultimately, it would be great to be able to care for our bodies enough that we have those options. Maybe you don’t love kayaking, but whatever your thing is. And a lot of that can be done with making food choices that will support your health, choosing herbs that will support your health, all those kinds of things.

Ryn (12:56):
Right, yeah.

Katja (12:57):
Wait, let me… But just getting to that point where I’m slowing down a little, that is not bad. Okay

Nourish Your Healthspan: Ginseng & Solomon’s Seal

Ryn (13:04):
Yeah. And of course, a lot of our habits, the things that we ourselves maintain as habits, and the things that we recommend to clients, and we teach other people about. Part of the goal is to have the longest health span that you can, right? If you’re not familiar with this term, this is kind of the difference between lifespan and healthspan, right? So, lifespan is literally just the clock count of how long you live. Healthspan is how much of that time you feel pretty good, right? Not perfect and amazing, and I can do everything, and let’s go climb the mountain, and whatever, right? But I feel pretty good. I get through my day. I don’t have to worry about my health. I don’t have to interrupt the activities that I want to do because something hurts, or something is wrong or off. Healthspan, right? And that’s what we’re trying to increase, to nourish maybe is a better word than maximize.

Katja (13:59):
Yeah, I like nourish. Nourish, support. And it’s not like I don’t have to worry about my health. That doesn’t mean I don’t have to take action daily to support my health, right? Because people think that oh, I should be healthy without having to think about it or do work for it. No, no, no, no. That’s not true. It’s not true for humans. It’s not true for any other animals out there. But just this idea that supporting your body so that you can move through all of the parts of being human, which does include aging. And so, okay. I promise there would be some herbs. So let’s maybe talk about some herbs.

Ryn (14:41):
Oh, this is where we do ginseng, right? Ginseng It’s the herb for people who are getting older and don’t like it. And when you take enough ginseng, you feel so young that you can basically do whatever you want. That’s all there is to it.

Katja (14:56):
Yeah. No, that’s not how it’s going to work, right? Okay. But no, ginseng is actually a great example because that is the marketing around ginseng. That is what you will hear. And maybe you decide whoa, that’s for me. I’m going to have all the ginseng. But maybe you’ve been working a lot lately the last five years, and you sit mostly at a desk to do your work. And so it’s not like you’re super sporty right now. Maybe you were sometime in your past, but you’re not right now. And taking ginseng is not immediately going to change your reality of the world. It might give you more pep in your day, like you won’t have that afternoon slump or whatever. But it’s not going to make it so that today you’re huffing and puffing, hiking up the whatever. And tomorrow you suddenly magically are 21 again. That’s not how it works.

Ryn (15:53):
Yeah. And raising clarity around expectations like that is important. Because a lot of times people will try something for too short amount of time, not a good quality product, whatever, not the right dose, and then get disappointed or feel let down and kind of give up on the whole project.

Katja (16:09):
Yes. Oh my goodness. Can you guys please just pause us right now. Back up 30 seconds and listen to him say that again, because that was so good. Yes. Okay. But I think here, this is where the four pillars work comes in and also a lot of other herbs to do more supporting work. But so okay, take some ginseng. Start a slow workout pattern so that you’re working up to, so that you are facing the reality that the last five years have been hard on your body. So, you’re taking ginseng for the internal drive and energy. And then you are working your body out of that sedentary pattern. And then you are eating the foods that are going to really help, like maybe some extra protein, and protein that’s been longer cooked, slow-cooked. So that it’s a little easier for you to digest as you’re aging, and your digestion may be slowing down. And hey, let’s also get some bitters in there to help, right? So, we’re getting all these support structures underneath the ginseng.

Ryn (17:13):
Yeah. And you can frame all of those things. For some people it’s helpful to frame those things as these are going to make the ginseng work better, right? Or if you do these things, the ginseng effects are going to be a lot stronger and a lot more long lasting, right? This is true. These are literal statements.

Katja (17:33):
You could also say it in the completely opposite direction. These are things you need to do to rebuild your vitality. And ginseng can help give you the drive to actually succeed at them.

Ryn (17:44):
Equally true statement.

Katja (17:45):
Yeah. All three of those were true statements, right? Well, you know, let’s toss another herb in here that can also help, and that is Solomon’s seal.

Ryn (17:55):
I thought that was coming next. And I like it because in the same way that taking the ginseng isn’t the end of the story. There’s other work that has to be done. And how ginseng can be helpful if you’ve been more sedentary, or you’ve been dealing with more fatigue or exhaustion. But it’s not the full solution in and of itself. Adding in all the things you were describing is the way to go there. Solomon’s seal we think of in the context of joint pain. But as much as I love this herb, just taking squirts of tincture a few times a day won’t make your joint pain go away. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Wouldn’t that be nice, right? Yeah. Okay. Here’s six people who are emailing me right in this moment saying hey, Ryn. My joint pain went away because all I did was take the Solomon’s seal. All right, all right. But what I…

Katja (18:43):
Especially in the context of aging, especially in the context of aging, this is super, super true.

Ryn (18:48):
Long-term inflammatory pain that’s been with you for years or decades.

Katja (18:52):
Or that maybe it hasn’t been with you that whole time. But it’s been building and building and building, and now it’s symptomatic. Yeah.

Ryn (18:59):
Yeah. In that kind of context, your Solomon’s seal isn’t going to eliminate it entirely. But if we’re putting in Solomon’s seal. If we’re rubbing in some muscle and joint salve into the ones that are particularly rough. If we’re doing some gentle movement focused on mobility and flexibility.

Katja (19:18):
And we’re making sure that we’re getting sufficient fluids and fats so that we’ve got plenty of joint lubrication going on. And we’re attending to lymphatic drainage so that we don’t get extra crud accumulating in the joints. Yeah. Okay, there’s a whole list here. But Solomon’s seal is a big part of it.

Ryn (19:38):
Yeah. And with that protocol or that set of complementary interventions, you can expect really significant changes in your range of motion, the amount of pain you experience, things like that.

Katja (19:51):
Yeah. And it’s not like it’ll take forever. But if you’re consistent with it for a month, for a couple months, as you are also consistent with the other things that your body needs for support, you’re going to see a big difference. But it is still going to be your body. You’re not going to be 21 again. And that I just think is the kind of like mental check that it’s so important to always come back to. Because all of those influencers are trying to sell you the thing. And the way they’re trying to sell it to you is to tell you that you’re going to feel like you did when you were young. Now your joints are still whatever age they are. But we are going to support them so that they have everything that they need to continue working.

Ryn (20:31):
Yeah, right. Solomon Seal is slightly harder to come by. It’s not as popular as ginseng. You’re not going to find it at the gas station or the grocery store. But fortunately there are some really excellent vendors online, and we’ll put a couple of them in the show notes here. Yeah.

Nervines to Reflect: Blue Vervain

Katja (20:51):
So, you know, another herb that I want to include here is, well, it’s going to be a category of herbs actually. And it’s going to be nervine herbs. But before I even go into that, I also just want to put a little pin, and then we’ve got to talk about moistening herbs. Okay. But nervine herbs are important at this time of life because the way that your body works does not necessarily match the size of the to-do list that you still have in your life. And you may be coming to this age and saying there are some things on my to-do list, on my life to-do list, and I’m not sure that I’m going to get all of them done anymore. And there’s some grief involved in that. And there’s some grief when you get to a certain age, and you realize oh, so much of my life I wasted being dumb. And ah, if I had only known what I know now. Why was I so dumb, right?

Ryn (21:56):
A perennial favorite, that one. Yeah.

Katja (21:57):
Yeah. And so a couple nervines that I want to suggest. But then I also just want to say that this is a broad category, and so it’ll be different for each person. But a few that I really want to suggest. One is blue vervain, because aging is something that we don’t control. I mean, okay, we can impact it. We can buffer it a little bit. We can put ourselves into that process in the most prepared way possible, yes. But it is going to happen to all of us. And that feeling of I don’t like what’s happening is not super fun. We feel a little out of control. And blue vervain is such a great herb to help us relax into that feeling. And I mean specifically relax into the feeling. And I do not mean it’s the herb that will push that feeling away, right?

Ryn (22:58):
Yeah. This whole segment really… Actually, okay, the impression that I’m creating in my mind of this whole segment, which might not be what you had in mind, was that this is more going to be about herbs to work with to help you do some mental and emotional work of reframing your understanding of yourself, your experiences of your life, and how you think about who you’ve been and who you are. So, some of these might be herbs that you take every day, and they’re your keep your calm blend, right? They’re your everything will be fine tea formula, right? But some of these – and I think blue vervain has a place here – are also helpful when you take them in a quiet moment or a quiet day, right? You say I’m going to spend some time. I’m going to think about my life in the big picture. It’s good if you have some swaying trees and some fluffy clouds up in there for you to look at while you do that. And I’m going to take blue vervain while I do this so that I don’t immediately get thrown into the tension feeling of oh no. Thirty years ago I made a big faux pas at the family dinner. And just focus on that one moment as defining you, and your life, and where you were, and where you are.

Katja (24:21):
Yeah. You know, society is so do it all. Do it forever. Do it every day. And you cannot do it all. And you cannot do it forever. So, there comes a point in your life where you are a certain age. And you’re like I can no longer ignore that. I cannot do it all. I absolutely must face that fact now. And so I think, you know, herbs like Hawthorne and Heather are also really helpful here, these grief-supportive herbs. And I’m going to say Linden too, which is the thing that’s going to move us towards the demulcents. But did you have more nervine things to say?

Ryn (25:07):
I think less specific plants that I would bring forward and more on this sense of thinking of this as something that you can define time to do, right? In the same way that at this stage of life, it’s good to set aside some time and figure out what happens after you pass. You know, if it’s about a will, if it’s about a trust, if it’s about that kind of thing. Making it easier on advance for the people who might be taking care of your affairs after you’re gone, that kind of planning. It’s not something that will happen spontaneously, right? And in a similar way looking back on your life, it might happen spontaneously. Thinking about who you’ve been and who you are, that might happen to you. But it’s likely to rush onto you and often be uncomfortable. Rather than what I’m advocating for is to sit down and do it on purpose, right? And take herbal friends with you, you know? If that’s vervain, if that’s vanilla, if that’s tulsi, whatever it is that works best for you. I think that’s worth it.

Demulcents for Dryness & Depletion: Linden & Elm

Katja (26:14):
Linden.

Ryn (26:16):
Yeah, Linden.

Katja (26:17):
Because it’s the hug in the mug. And it’s like if you need some support and you aren’t really sure what that support is, linden is… You can’t go wrong. You can’t go wrong. It might not be perfect, but it’s going to help. And so yeah, that also kicks off our demulcents because linden is a moistening herb, and aging brings in dryness. Aging brings in depletion. Energetically, if we’re looking at aging, it’s dryness and depletion. That’s okay. That’s okay. It is part of human life. Dying is part of it. Aging is part of it. But we can make it more comfortable. And so linden, marshmallow, even sassafras. That’s a good one for if you’re a person like me. You are already running damp, but you also oddly feel the need for some moistening. And you feel a little confused by that. You’re like no, I don’t normally need that. Sassafras leaf is a gentle moistener.

Ryn (27:24):
It has demulcency. It has a touch of a stringency at the same time. It’s always interesting when those two qualities come in the same plant. Or when you build a little formula, and you carefully balance the two of those to get the combo effect that you’re aiming for. Yeah, that’s interesting for sure. I mean, elm, elm bark is reasonable to work with when you’re an elder. It’s very digestible. It’s very nourishing. And at the same time being a demulcent and a hydrating herb. And that could be as simple as if you eat hot cereal, or oatmeal, or something, a little bit of slippery elm powder can be stirred right into that. It doesn’t have to be a whole separate thing or a big, slimy concoction that you chug down somehow. But incorporating it into food is a fine way to work with elm. Any elm, by the way, it doesn’t have to be slippery elm. It could be Siberian elm powder, other things like that too. Yeah.

Katja (28:22):
All right. Well.

Ryn (28:23):
Actually, when it comes to the demulcents, these are all helpful for the dryness that’s common in elder years. I would just note that it’s probably a good idea to combine them with some carminative for most elders. Because you tend to be moving both towards dryness but also coolness, cold as you age. And so since many of the demulcent herbs, most of the demulcent herbs are cooling themselves, just by themselves they could maybe exacerbate that tendency. Fortunately you can put in fennel. You could put in ginger together with your marshmallow infusions.

Katja (28:58):
A nice bit of cardamon even.

Ryn (28:59):
Cardamon, yeah.

Katja (29:00):
That would be lovely.

Ryn (29:01):
To warm them up and get that going.

Katja (29:03):
Yeah. All right. So, we have from ginseng – the traditional it’ll give you energy, whatever – all the way through to softening, moistening herbs. These aren’t all of them, but they’re some of them. So, if you want to learn more about supporting your body at any age. If you are already aging, and things are starting to happen. And you’re like I need to be able to take care of this stuff. Or if you’re young, and you’re like hey, let’s start early. Because boy, I wish somebody had told me that, you know?

Ryn (29:38):
Yeah. Because it’s both never too early, and it’s also never too late, right? So, if you’re feeling like oh man, I really should have done all that stuff a long time ago. Start now. Start today. It’s fantastic.

Katja (29:49):
So, the Community Herbalism program is going to help you with that. It goes through all the different body systems, all the things that break down for people at any age, and all the ways to fix them with herbs and holistic strategies. So, check that out at online.commonwealthherbs.com. And oh, this is where I have some good pun about aging. I don’t, y’all. It’s a little real right now.

Ryn (30:18):
Go gray. Go great. Yeah. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. We’ll be back soon with some more Holistic Herbalism podcast for you. Until then take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and don’t freak out. It’s okay to age. We love you. Bye.

Katja (30:36):
Bye-Bye.