Podcast 245: Adaptogens, or A Nap To Gen…erate Recovery?

If you’re trying to decide whether you need adaptogens or a nap, well, the answer just might be both! But you can learn how to combine your adaptogens with other holistic interventions for better effects.

In this episode we’re talking about choosing the best adaptogens to work with when what you really need is rest – a super common situation we all find ourselves in from time to time. We talk about ways to get rest – even if you don’t have time to nap! – as well as ways to rest that aren’t about sleep at all.

How to start? Well, we can choose the least stimulating adaptogens necessary, first. That might mean going with tulsi before red ginseng, or jiaogulan before rhodiola. It might mean combining reishi and lion’s mane with burdock and dandelion root, to keep a grounding influence right there with our adaptogens. It might even mean formulating with digestives and nervines to subtly shift the influences of the adaptogenic herbs themselves.

We can also be discerning about the type of activation we get – mental or physical at the fore. Tulsi & green tea is a very different combination than is eleuthero & coffee!

Let’s also consider creating a support blend to go along with my adaptogens. This might include demulcents (marshmallow, fennel), nutritives (nettle), digestives (calendula, plantain, ginger, chamomile), or nervine relaxants & sedatives (skullcap, passionflower, betony, vervain). As always, herbal formulation is a great way to direct & enhance the effects of our primary herbs.

​Finally, here are three questions you should ask yourself whenever you’re thinking about adaptogens:

• What’s going on for me right now?
• Is there anything I could be doing differently?​
• What’s the most important thing right now?​

Interested in learning more about adaptogens, nervines, and related herbs for nerve & mood support? Check out our Neurological & Emotional Health course. This course is a user’s guide to your nerves & your emotions – including the difficult and dark ones. We discuss holistic herbalism strategies for addressing both neurological & psychological health issues. It includes a lengthy discussion of herbal pain management strategies, too!

Like all our offerings, this self-paced online video course comes with free access to twice-weekly live Q&A sessions with us, lifetime access to current & future course material, open discussion threads integrated in each lesson, an active student community, study guides, quizzes & capstone assignments, and more!

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Our theme music is “Wings” by Nicolai Heidlas.

Episode Transcript

Katja (00:00:14):
Hi, I’m Katja.

Ryn (00:00:15):
And I’m Ryn.

Katja (00:00:16):
And we’re here at Commonwealth Holistic Herbalism in Boston, Massachusetts.

Ryn (00:00:20):
And on the internet everywhere thanks to the power of the podcast.

Katja (00:00:23):
Woo-Hoo.

Ryn (00:00:25):
That’s right.

Katja (00:00:26):
This week we’re going to talk about adaptogens.

Ryn (00:00:30):
We are.

Katja (00:00:32):
Somewhere… Oh, it was like at the end of last week or the week before even maybe, I didn’t know what to post on social media. I was like I need to make a post for Instagram, and I don’t know what to say. And I really need a nap. And I should maybe take some adaptogens so that I can be peppy and think of something to say. And then I was like oh, I guess that’s what I’m going to say to Instagram. So, that day I was like do I need a nap, or do I need adaptogens? And I made a little post about nap versus adaptogens. And then that got me thinking about adaptogens in general. And how we as a society or as a culture, not just in the herbal world but also in the more mainstream world. Because adaptogens are definitely the herbs that mainstream, not herbalist people know about. And kind of how we work with them and what we expect of them. And then versus the reality of adaptogens. And how can we bring those two things a little bit closer together? So, I wrote a newsletter about it. And I realized the newsletter was seven miles long, and I still had not said nearly everything that I thought needed to be said on the topic. So, I was like well, if I make this newsletter any longer, nobody will read it, so I better stop. And then I was like it’s okay. I’ll save it for the podcast. I have so much more to say on this topic. We will save it for the podcast. So, here we are a whole week later still thinking about do I need a nap, or do I need adaptogens? And how can we bring our expectations of adaptogens more in line with how adaptogens really work? And what other herbs and strategies do we need to bring into the picture so that we get the results that we expect from the things that we hear about adaptogens.

Ryn (00:02:28):
Yeah. But here’s the real question. Have you had a nap this week?

Katja (00:02:33):
Not one single time.

Ryn (00:02:35):
No. Not even once

Katja (00:02:36):
Not even once. But look, this whole 32-ounce mug is filled with adaptogens.

Ryn (00:02:44):
So, let us make it clear from the outset that we love adaptogens. We think they’re fantastic, and we work with them pretty regularly ourselves.

Katja (00:02:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryn (00:02:52):
This is not a let’s hate on adaptogens episode.

Nap or Adaptogen?

Katja (00:02:55):
No, this is a let’s, hmm, not exactly formulate adaptogens, although that’s great. But let’s get more well-rounded. Because your body needs more than just adaptogens to do what we want it to do when we start taking adaptogens. And so what are those other things? How can we bring them in? Don’t worry, it’s not too hard. And how can that help us get better results when we’re really busy, and not taking a nap, and reaching for adaptogens?

Ryn (00:03:32):
That’s what. So before we leap in, let’s remind you that we’re not doctors. We’re herbalists and holistic health educators.

Katja (00:03:40):
The ideas discussed in this podcast do not constitute medical advice. No state or federal authority licenses herbalists in the United States. So, these discussions are for educational purposes only.

Ryn (00:03:52):
We want to remind you that good health doesn’t mean the same thing for everyone. Good health doesn’t exist as an objective standard. It’s influenced by your individual needs, experiences, and goals. So, keep in mind we’re not attempting to present a single dogmatic right way that you must adhere to.

Katja (00:04:09):
Everyone’s body is different. So, the things that we’re talking about may or may not apply directly to you. But we hope that they’ll give you some new information to think about and some ideas to research and experiment with further.

Ryn (00:04:20):
Finding your way to better health is both your right and your own personal responsibility. This doesn’t mean you’re alone on the journey, and it doesn’t mean that you’re to blame for your current state of health. But it does mean that the final decision when you’re considering any course of action, whether discussed on the internet or prescribed by a physician, that’s always your choice to make. Yeah. And let it be an informed choice. That’s what we’re into.

Katja (00:04:45):
Yes.

Ryn (00:04:47):
So, adaptogen or a nap to generate some energy. Which one do you need?

Katja (00:04:57):
I mean, maybe both.

Ryn (00:04:59):
Maybe both have a place. Oh, hmm, yes.

Katja (00:05:02):
Maybe both. But maybe like me you hate to take naps. Or maybe you love to take naps, but you don’t have time because that is also a reality. Maybe you even woke up in the morning, and you were tired. And you were like I’m taking a nap today. And then you never had time.

Ryn (00:05:16):
This is going to be my good nap plan. I’m going to go to the nap spot. It’s going to be great.

Katja (00:05:20):
Right? And so, just the reality is that our lives are very busy. There’s a problem with that. There’s a problem with how busy life is today. There’s also a problem with how much stress we are all under. But no one of us can completely fix that problem. Yes, you can make some adjustments to your life maybe. Maybe you can. Maybe you can’t. Maybe your work schedule just is such that there’s not anything you can do. But even if you did change a lot of things about your life, there still would be too much. And we still would be reaching for adaptogens or something to help. Coffee, whatever to help us through the day. And so I think that’s the first thing is to really recognize that you’re not bad because you’re tired, and trying to schlep yourself to work, and whatever else. That doesn’t make you bad. You are not bad because you didn’t get enough sleep last night. Although if you could have gotten more sleep, and you didn’t because you just wanted to stay up late. Then okay, maybe you could decide if that really served you or not. But it’s not bad. It’s just the way stuff is right now.

Ryn (00:06:28):
Yeah. We do want to make that clear. For sure. For sure.

Katja (00:06:31):
All right. So, we’re going to break this into three parts. The first part is if you are working with adaptogens when you feel stressed. And you’re reaching for adaptogens. But what you really need is to rest, and you can’t. Then you have choices. Because adaptogens are a full spectrum of actions. And potency. And I don’t want to say harshness, but some of them really will stimulate you. And some of them will stimulate you enough to get the job done, right? So, we want to look at that spectrum. And think about what choices can we make to match the adaptogens that we’re taking and the energy that we’re trying to build to the amount of energy that we actually need so that we don’t end up in that tire-and-wired cycle.

Ryn (00:07:28):
Yeah. And don’t think of that as these are the good adaptogens, and these are the bad ones. Or these are the restorative ones, and these are the ones that are going to drive you into overstimulated burnout. So, much of that is going to depend on dose, format, formulation, and the rest of your life. Which is a very big range. So, none of this should be taken as us saying rhodiola is always bad for people because it’s going to burn them out worse than they started. Or jiaogulan is always good for everybody because it’s a restorative adaptogen, and that’s the only right way to take them. No, we don’t want to be getting into dogma here either.

Katja (00:08:10):
No. It’s really about differentiating between the adaptogens so that you can pick what you need for the task at hand. And if that is ginseng, if it’s the super zippy red ginseng, then it is. That’s what you need for the task at hand. But you don’t maybe need that every single day. Maybe another day you could get away with codonopsis or something. So, okay. So, we’re going to look at that. And then the next thing we’re going to do is ways to rest, even if you don’t really have time to rest. Because there’s more to resting than just taking a nap. So, there’s a lot of other ways that we can provide rest, restoration, nourishment even, replenishment to the body, even if we don’t have time to sleep. So, it’s like ways that we can kind of close that gap.

Ryn (00:09:00):
And then to round it out, we’ve got three questions that you should ask yourself whenever you are considering an adaptogen, or especially when you’re considering some high powered, high-energy, high-potency version of an adaptogen.

Energy to Stay Focused & On Task

Katja (00:09:17):
All right. So, let’s start off with the best adaptogens to work with, when what you really need is rest. And we’re also going to talk about other herbs to work with together with those adaptogens to round it out for you. Because the key here is that we want to get the action that we need without overshooting the mark. Because If we overshoot the mark. If you’re taking red ginseng every single day, then the likelihood that you get into that tired-and-wired state where your ability to sleep when you do have the opportunity to do it becomes diminished. Because you’re so amped up that you’re just really overstimulated. So, it takes you a really long time to get to sleep. That’s not efficient either. We want to get done what we have to get done. And then when we finally have the ability to rest, we want to actually be able to rest. So, that’s the key: choosing the right tool for the job here. And you can break this up in any way you want, but I myself like to before I start picking an adaptogen, or even before I start ranking adaptogens, I kind of want to think about what kind of energy do I actually need? Because if what you need is a bunch of physical energy so that you can chase after kids all day, or you can go to a construction job, or you can do whatever. If that’s the kind of energy that you need, you’re probably going to be making different choices than if the energy that you need is to sit in front of a computer. And really focus on writing a thing that is due tomorrow and should not have any mistakes in it.

Ryn (00:11:01):
Yeah. Two different circumstances call for two different kinds of attention, focus, energy generation, and output. Yeah. That’s for sure.

Katja (00:11:12):
So, maybe let’s start with the mental work because well, that’s the kind of work that I usually have to do. So – I don’t know – we’ll start with that. So, if I’m really zombified, and I have to focus, and I have to do the work. And either I’m feeling really distracted, or I’m feeling just too tired to focus. Some of the herbs that I like best here are going to be tulsi, jiaogulan, and then reishi and lion’s mane. And you’ll notice that none of these are super zippy. In my body I don’t want to take red ginseng and then sit down in front of a computer and try to type. Because I’m going to be hopping all around, tapping my pencil. I’m going to not be able to think deeply. I’m going to think fast, but not with depth. So, that’s not an herb I would take because what we’re really talking about, I still have to sit still. I still have to sit and focus. So, I don’t want something that’s going to make me super hyper. So, tulsi and jiaogulan are two that I’m choosing because they are simultaneously yes, uplifting. Tulsi especially when your mood is crappy, and you really want to take a nap. I’m kind of mad that I’m not taking a nap. I don’t even like naps, and I don’t want to be doing this work. You know, like that. And you can’t do good work if you are feeling peevish. And for jiaogulan it’s kind of like consistency and endurance. And jiaogulan is going to show up in the physical section too, at least in my list of herbs, because it does help with that endurance on both sides of things. But here I’m really thinking about that mental endurance. Like I’m tired. I’m going to be tired all day. And I also have to do this work all day. So, I need kind of like a slow-release herb that’s going to be providing the energy and the fortitude to get through what I need to do, but not so much that I’m jumping up and down.

Ryn (00:13:34):
Chewing on pieces of codonopsis can be somewhat similar to that. Codonopsis is often thought of more as an immune-focused adaptogen. And there’s really great reasons to put it in that realm. On the other hand, it’s also sometimes called poor man’s ginseng. And you know, it does have some benefit for energy and activation in terms of what you feel moment to moment. But I don’t know that I would… Would I have a strong differentiation between mental work and physical work for codonopsis? It’s more about duration than about type.

Katja (00:14:09):
Yeah, it’s more about duration. And I feel like also when we think about codonopsis… You know how somebody can bring you one big present or a lot of little presents. And both are fun. But if you have a lot of little presents, it’s like ooh, I get to just keep opening packages for the next hour. This is going to be so great. And so I kind of think about something like ginseng is like one big present. This is it. This is what you get. It is energy, it’s in this box. It has a bow. That’s all there is. But with codonopsis it’s like oh, I’ve brought you some energy. And I’ve also brought you some nutritive aspects. And I’ve also brought you some restorative aspects. And also I’ve brought some stuff to put back in the gaps where you were digging out energy yesterday when you were also tired. And it is kind of like it comes along with a whole shopping bag full of things for you. And so the energy aspect of it is not as enormous. But it has all these other things to come with it.

Ryn (00:15:19):
Yeah, yeah. That’s true. When you’re doing this, one of the best moves you can make is to not take the adaptogen herb all by itself, but to formulate it. Because the other herbs can direct, and focus, and refine the action that you get from your adaptogen and make it even more targeted and appropriate to the action or the need that you’re actually trying to address.

Formulating & Partner Blends to Balance It Out

Katja (00:15:42):
Which is a great segue into my giant 32-ounce mug of adaptogens right now. Because this is a whole lot of reishi in here. And those were the other… reishi and then lion’s mane were the other two that I was really thinking about in this category, at least for me. But so this is a whole lot of reishi, and also some angelica, and some codonopsis like you were saying, also a little astragalus. Oh, and ashwagandha is in here as well. And ashwagandha is a little bit more on the zingy side, but it’s a small part of this formula. Or it is an equal part, but there are many parts of the formula, so it’s not huge. And so yeah, when you are formulating it does really balance out the actions a lot more.

Ryn (00:16:40):
No calamus in this batch?

Katja (00:16:41):
No. No calamus in this batch.

Ryn (00:16:43):
Angelica instead..

Katja (00:16:45):
Yeah. And okay, well that’s also a why, right? Calamus is a very calming plant. Yes, it stimulates the digestive system. But in terms of the nervous system, it really stimulates the rest aspect, like the parasympathetic, the rest-and-digest aspect of the nervous system. And that’s not bad for sitting and doing focus work. That’s good. But if I’m super tired, I might not really want to be emphasizing that aspect. Angelica is antispasmodic. It has antispasmodic action more in the muscles than in exactly the nerves. It has some of the same stimulating actions that calamus has in terms of digestive activity and also cardiovascular stimulation, but it’s a little peppier. It doesn’t have quite the same mood relaxant or nervous system relaxant action that calamus has. The flavors are pretty similar, and I find angelica to be just a smidge less bitter. But I know, I know.

Ryn (00:18:01):
That was my surprised face for those of you on audio.

Katja (00:18:07):
But it doesn’t matter because the reishi is providing plenty of bitter in here regardless. But yeah, so that’s why I went with angelica instead of calamus. Just because it is a little uppier than calamus is.

Ryn (00:18:22):
Yeah. So, some of those in there to kind of focus and orient the work of the more – I don’t know – typical adaptogens in your selection. Right. Yeah. You know, if I’m sitting down for something like this, my formula’s going to depend on a couple factors. One of them is how actually tired I am throughout my whole body mind. If I’m just feeling a little distractible, or unfocused, or whatever, then I might just go and say all right. Yeah, some tulsi, some jiaogulan would be great. Maybe something a little bit motivating, some ginkgo, some rosemary. Those often go really well in a thinky kind of a blend. If I’m feeling a little more wiped out or like I really need to get some stuff done as quick as I can, then caffeine’s going to come in. And that might be yerba mate, or guayusa, or yaupon, the caffeine holly group there. Or green tea, or black tea, or oolong, or white tea, or silver tea because they’re all Camellia sinensis, right? They’re all from that same plant. But I do like to take my tea formulated with these kinds of adaptogens. I find that that helps to alter the caffeine influence even further in the direction of you go from coffee on the one hand to green tea. And now you’re moving from that kind of physical stimulation to more mental stimulation with some focus, with some anxiolytic quality to keep you steady and keep you centered. But then you combine that with the effects of the tulsi, the jiaogulan, the ginkgo, things like this. And it’s a very effective way, at least for me, to stay present, grind it out, fall into the computer for a while, and come back with something effective.

Katja (00:20:14):
But without getting that whole jittery thing.

Ryn (00:20:18):
Yeah, you know, shaking hands, and upset stomach, and all that other kind of thing. That can happen. Right.

Katja (00:20:27):
Often when I am doing this kind of stuff, I will have two different blends going on. And that’s pretty common for me anyway. I’m one of those people that has… Oh my God, last night at dinner, I literally had four different cups of liquid, like four different drinks at dinner. And I’m like this is so a Katja thing to do. So, if you’re out there, and you’re also the kind of person who has multiple mugs and mason jars of beverage around the house because you’re drinking all of them right now, then this strategy might also work for you. So, I’ll have one that has my adaptogen blend. And then I’ll have one that has like a partner blend. And the partner blend is doing a lot of work to kind of stabilize what I’m trying to build with the adaptogens. So, in this case I’m thinking about herbs like wood betony and mugwort. Wood betony and mugwort kind of are like two ends. They’re holding tension. You can’t see me, so I’m like pulling my hands apart, like I don’t know.

Ryn (00:21:46):
One above and one below.

Katja (00:21:48):
Yeah. That’s what I’m trying to say. And that tension, like if you were holding a string. And one end was at your head, and one end was at your belly, and you were just holding it tight. I find that creating that kind of an energetic tension in the body is very sustaining when I’m trying to do mental work. Instead of just shifting all of the energy into my head, I want to be grounding some of it, like an electrical cord that has the third prong so that it can’t shock anything.

Ryn (00:22:24):
Yeah. Well, you don’t want to get lifted up out of your head, above yourself, and into the sky.

Katja (00:22:28):
Right, yes. So, the wood betony in this case is doing that grounding work and literally anchoring the work that I’m trying to do. And the mugwort, you know, you probably think of in terms of menstrual stuff or whatever. And yes. But one of my way more favorite ways to work with mugwort is cerebral stimulation, and especially frontal brain cerebral, like really rational, logical thinking. And when I have to focus on work and really get it done, I really love mugwort in that way. Especially with a little juniper tossed in, maybe a little orange peel just for flavor because then we get a, a flavor profile that is really appealing. But those two together really can help do that work. And it is that that anchored feeling. Not anchored, like dragging behind me kind of anchored. But anchored like firmly seated into what I need to be kind of feeling. And it gives me a lot of security. It gives me a lot of stability as I’m trying to do the work. So that I’m not like getting carried away on 10,000 horsepower of adaptogens. I’m controlling that power.

When You Need Physical Power

Ryn (00:23:59):
Yeah. But sometimes you do need a lot of power. And if you’re going to go, and you’re going to move all of the big rocks out of the woods, and carry them across the yard, and build them up into the garden terraces that you’ve been creating. Then you’ve got to be able to move it, right? And so at that point, we might choose different adaptogens. Or we might prepare them differently or formulate them differently than we would do if our focus is more on mental action. So, this can be a place for some of the more stimulating plants, for larger doses of red ginseng or something like that. But it could also be a place to turn to something like eleuthero, which is another one of these plants that’s talked of in comparison to the true ginseng. People used to call it Siberian ginseng for a while before they kind had to stop. And eleuthero can sustain you on that physical level for the long march, for the long slog, for the marathon, and things of that nature. And so that’s often one we think of when there’s a physical task to be done.

Katja (00:25:14):
I turn to ashwagandha here too. Ashwagandha is really well-suited to my particular constitution. And so I turn to ashwagandha a lot. But I do find it to be super, super helpful when I have a lot of physical work that I need to do. And also, it does help with those cycles. Like, okay, I’m going to do all this physical work. And then I’m going to fall into bed and actually go to sleep at night, you know?

Ryn (00:25:46):
Yeah. Yeah. But that might be a time that your daily decoction does have a bit of coffee in it just to give that, right? And I think I said earlier, but when you have a bunch of physical work to do, then that’s the right time for coffee as your caffeine source choice. Yeah, that’s a good way. And you know, coffee goes really nicely with the tastes of eleuthero, and ashwagandha, and the ginsengs, and all of that. So, it can be really nice to make blends that way, to make formulae that way. You’re also maybe a little more likely to get some friends of yours interested in herbs if you approach it as herbal-powered coffee or something like that. You know, people have by now seen these adaptogen blends, these coffee replacements, or enhancers, or whatever. So, that idea isn’t so unfamiliar as it used to be.

Katja (00:26:42):
This can also be a really helpful time for rhodiola. When I think about rhodiola, I like to think about Vikings and really visualize what they actually did. Which was kind of amazing if you really visualize it. They got in boats, but do not picture the Nina, and the Pinta, and the Santa Maria here. This weren’t these weren’t boats that had cabins and stuff. Boats with maybe a sail, but also with a lot of manpower. And they sailed across an entire ocean for days and days or I don’t know, even weeks. They didn’t see any land, and they’re just out there paddling. And it’s gray, and it’s cold, and it’s wet. And we paddled all day today, and we’re going to paddle all day tomorrow too. And the next day, paddling. So, if you have that kind of job, it’s uncomfortable. It’s strenuous. It’s a marathon. It is not ending. It is monotonous. That’s when I really think about rhodiola.

Ryn (00:27:53):
Yeah. For sure. It fits in nicely with humid climates, well, humid, damp climates.

Katja (00:28:01):
Like cold, damp. I think about it in terms of cold, damp.

Ryn (00:28:04):
That’s better, yeah.

Katja (00:28:05):
Not humid, because humid is hot, damp, I think of it as cold, damp. Yeah. Like you have to do all this work, and also you’re chilled to the bone, you know?

Ryn (00:28:14):
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. I’ve often found goji to be helpful in connection to physical work, although I usually think of it more as recovery than preparation. So, you’ve had an intense workday or workout. And now you want to rest, you want to recover, you want to feel good tomorrow. I’ve always found goji berry to be really helpful in those moments. Even just to grab a bunch out of the jar and snack ’em down. Or to prepare a decoction because they decoct really well. You can boil them until they kind of start to break up or dissolve into the liquid. That’s when you know you’ve really gotten all the good stuff out. But I’ll like a preparation like that. And if it’s a kind of recovery thing, then I’d probably do goji berry. A bit of licorice root would get into there. And then probably also some roots that wouldn’t be considered adaptogenic. But since this is after a bunch of physical exertion, if I have some Solomon’s seal and I can afford to toss that in my decoction, I’m going to love that. I like to put a touch of kava into there, a touch of calamus as well for some physical muscular relaxation. And we could even sneak in some burdock or some dandelion for a little bit of liver activation, making sure those systems on the eliminative side are working well. So, a formula like that can be really helpful. Particularly in the times when it’s like yeah, we had to do a lot of heavy work today. And there’s going to be more tomorrow, so we need to try to condense the recovery period as much as we can.

Katja (00:29:56):
Yeah. So, kind of like before you are working, you’re having your buildup blend. And then when the work is done, but it’s not really done because you’re going to do it again tomorrow. Then we have this recovery blend so that you can actually do it again tomorrow. Yeah, nice. All right. Well, so those are some thoughts on which adaptogens to choose, and why, and when, and some herbs that go well with them. But there are also other aspects of herbs that can go along with them. Now, don’t worry. As we go through all this stuff, you’ll find that there are places where you can double things up. So, we’re not adding extra quarts of tea every time that we are going to bring up another herb here. You can blend them together. So, as you’re finding the parts that resonate for you, just write each one down. And then kind of look at it and be like okay, how can I work these into formulas that make sense so that I’m not drinking five quarts of tea today. Or drink five quarts of tea, especially if you’re doing hard work in the hot sun. Also an option..

Ryn (00:31:09):
It could be worse. It could be worse for sure. Yeah, that’s true. But we’re thinking here in the sense that you can formulate your herbs because you take them all at the same time, or all in the same mug, or the same squirts of tincture, or whatever else. But you can also formulate about your protocol or your regimen through the course of your day. And say yeah, I know I have… Like we often think about this in terms of energetic balancing of a protocol. It’s like I’ve got a formula. It’s really targeted to the thing we need to do, and we need to change in the body. But it has maybe a very drying effect. And so we want to make sure, not in that same blend, but another time in the day, you’re getting a good batch of demulcents into you on a consistent basis, right? So, it’s just a reminder that you don’t need to get so focused on one remedy, one preparation, a single formula that you try to make it do everything you need for the entire person for their entire life all there at once. We can say well, you’re going to have this tea, and this tincture blend, and these herbs in your food, and this electuary. And there we go. There’s the whole plan together.

Katja (00:32:17):
Yeah. you know, marshmallow was further down on the list, but I think I want to talk about it first since you just mentioned it. And I think that’s really important because often when we’re super stressed out, and when we are doing endurance work – whether that is mental endurance work or physical endurance work – it is dehydrating. Not necessarily dehydrating like you look at a person and see that they’re dehydrated. Sometimes you can. But like in my body, because I run damp, you are never really going to look at me and be like wow. She’s really dehydrated today. You are probably never going to see that. Because I would have to be dehydrated for like a whole week for you to be able to really see it because I carry enough water. So, my point here is you don’t have to look like a mummy to be drying out on the inside. Stress is drying. Stress is depleting. And so even if you do not feel completely dehydrated, that doesn’t necessarily mean that at a cellular level that is not the impact that the stress is having. It is always one impact of stress to be this depletion factor. Now, if you are somebody who runs dry, throw all of what I just said out the window because you probably will look at a person and say are you super stressed out? You look like a mummy.

Ryn (00:33:49):
Yeah. You for sure need to take that into account. And that can start with your choice of adaptogens, right? If we’re looking at jiaogulan, if we’re looking at shatavari, these herbs are going to have moistening effects alongside their adaptogenic impact. And so if we’re trying to keep the protocol as simple as possible, the fewest number of herbs to make it easy for somebody that you’re talking to at a distance. You can’t just prepare and hand them things. Maybe that’s the way to go, right? Try this out. Try this one and see if that does what you need. because that seems like the best match to your constitution. Other times we’re going to say well, it’s hard for you to get your hands on this plant, or you just have accessibility to a different adaptogen because It grows in your forest, and you can harvest it sustainably, and all of that, right? But I am concerned it’s going to be drying you out to some extent. So, I want to get you a demulcent formula into your life. And keep that going just to prevent the dryness effect from getting too severe. That will be, again, more of an issue if the person is taking large doses and concentrated formats of a given plant. If they’re having a slice off of a ginseng root into a gallon of water. And they decoct that and drink that every day. That’s going to have mild impact, right? But if somebody’s taking a hundred x concentrate of red ginseng extract and doing that a couple times a day, then they’re going to see these effects more rapidly. Yeah.

All the Minerals & Improving Digestion

Katja (00:35:23):
All right. So, another thing that stress does to everyone is that stress uses up your mineral reserves. And when we think about minerals, I don’t know. Tell me if this is true for you. I feel like when we think about minerals, we think of them as fairly static. When we think about our bones, we think of them as fairly static. Or when we think about our teeth, we think of them as static. But they’re not static. They are constantly in flux. We are constantly pulling from our bones to use minerals and then putting stuff back in our bones like a bank. And all of the systems of the body require minerals to function properly. And when we are stressed out, we use them up a lot faster. Simply because when we’re stressed out, a lot of our systems are running faster. And they’re not stopping, they’re not taking breaks. And so they’re just burning through minerals as if it’s fuel the whole time. They’re never really stopping. So as a result, even if you’re a person who eats lots of spinach and lots of this and that. And you normally have a fairly high mineral lifestyle or at least a sufficient mineral lifestyle. If you’re in a period of a lot of stress, you can be just burning through your mineral reserves, and then stuff is going to start to not work properly in your body. You’ll start to notice shaking things in your leg or in other parts of your body or twitchy things in the side of your eye. If it happens for a long time, you might start to notice that your hair is falling out. You’ll be like whoa, I am really stressed because I am all of a sudden having a bunch of hair come out. All different things can happen. So, my point here is minerals are super important when we’re stressed out.

Ryn (00:37:22):
Yeah. Fortunately, there are lots of great sources for minerals. And starting with herbs we can look at plants like nettle and horsetail. Plants that are really rich in mineral content in a format that is readily dissolved into our tea and readily received by the body. So, those are fantastic, and we like them a lot. Another way to look at this would be something like bone broth. And honestly, ounce for ounce, good quality bone broth maybe with some seaweed in there is an even better source than any of your nutritive herb teas that you could prepare, right? We love nutritive herb teas. We do find them helpful. But if you’re trying to maximize, then some bone broth and some seaweed. That’s where the real serious action is.

Katja (00:38:11):
And if you want to, you can put some nettle leaf in your bone broth. That’s totally fine. And you don’t even have to strain it out. You can just eat it. Just pretend like it’s parsley in your soup. It’s fine. Yeah.

Ryn (00:38:20):
Yeah. And look, if you’ve got a head of parsley, chop that up. Throw that in the broth too. There’s good mineral content in parsley, famously a mineral rich herb too.

Katja (00:38:27):
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Excellent. And when it’s bone broth that is also replenishing some protein. It is also giving you some fat. It’s a very well-rounded kind of restorative whatever. It isn’t just straight minerals. So, that’s cool.

Ryn (00:38:46):
Yeah. We can get some fibers in there. We can get some resistant starches. Things that are going to be serving as prebiotics, food for your friendly flora. So, herb-wise that starts with burdock, and dandelion, and chicory. Tossing those into there, getting that inulin content out. And yeah.

Katja (00:39:04):
Well, now we just have dinner going at this point.

Ryn (00:39:06):
We do, yeah. Yeah.

Katja (00:39:08):
Excellent.

Ryn (00:39:09):
And hey, if we’ve got dinner, then we should get some digestives. So here thinking about digestive soothing effects and the very common expression of stress in digestive discomfort, right? People feeling cramps, and spasms, and gas, and just like unsettledness in the belly is really, really common. And somebody who’s feeling enough stress to be like maybe I should try adaptogens, is probably also feeling enough stress that maybe they should try some carminatives, some bitters, some digestive vulnerary herbs, things that are going to soothe and heal the digestive lining. And boy, do we ever have a lot of those in our herbal repertoire.

Katja (00:39:53):
Yeah. So, here you can start with, if we kind of break this down, we can start with calendula and plantain in that vulnerary position, but chamomile will also help there. Actually lots of herbs help in that vulnerary place. But let’s go with calendula and plantain because they’re familiar to a lot of people. And then after that, we can put that as the base. And then we can think about well, how does stress hit you in the guts? And for me it’s going to slow everything down and cramp everything up. So, I’m looking at ginger and chamomile as a really important pair to help me when I have stress guts. So, for me this blend is going to look like calendula, plantain, chamomile, and ginger. But for you it’s going to look different.

Ryn (00:40:46):
Yeah. As we’ve said before, I’m more prone to dryness, and so I’m going to need at least one demulcent in the mix. That could be marshmallow leaf or root, either way to go. But it could also be one of the sweet demulcents. And here we’ve got a place to reincorporate an adaptogen or to have it in more than one spot, and that’s licorice. So, licorice root has that sweet, soothing, coating, protecting feeling on your throat as you swallow. And it exerts that through your stomach and on down. But it is also an adaptogenic herb, something that supports kidney and adrenal function and hormonal expression down there. So, that’s one I really like to include in a digestive blend. If not, then something that tastes kind of similar. I like it. I like that licoricey flavor. So, fennel has an anise flavor but also that sweetness, some similarity to licorice root in that regard. And that sweet, demulcent, covering quality to it is very pleasant. So, that’s a really good friend. Plus, fennel has a very nice relaxant quality as well. And dryness and tension in the guts often travel together. So, if you’re trying to address dryness, and you can address tension at the same time with fennel, then that’s delightful. Catnip is another big favorite for me in that kind of format. I love a good old ginger-chamomile tea myself. Yes. That’s really good.

Relaxing Nervines After Powering Through

Katja (00:42:16):
Yeah. All right. So, we’ve got minerals. We’ve got moistening action. We’ve got digestive support. And then the other thing that I feel like is really important. If you are in a place where you’re reaching for adaptogens, make sure that you have some relaxing nervines on deck. Because first off, if you’re reaching for adaptogens, you probably are also feeling some anxiousness. You’re probably also feeling some of the overwhelm that comes with stress. You may be feeling some tense depression. And so we need to just acknowledge that emotional side. It isn’t just I need to power through this. We can power through it and also give ourselves a little love on the side, right? So, that’s one aspect of it. But then the other aspect of it is if we have to power through it, then being able to sleep when we finally are able to is critically important. And the more that we force ourselves to power through it, the harder it becomes to sleep once we finally get the chance to do that. So, all the way around making sure that you have a plan for relaxing nervines, even if you don’t want to take them in the moment of powering through. It’s still going to be really important that you have them, and that you put them by the bed, or you put them next to the shower. Because after you’re done powering through, you’re going to go take a shower or something like that. Whatever you’re going to do when you’re done cranking it out, put it in that spot.

Ryn (00:43:55):
Yeah. You can think of this as a winding down blend. You can think of this as a bedtime formula, right? Those are places where it would make a lot of sense to have these not just as an abstract idea, but something that’s sitting there waiting for you to grab it in the right moment. This is my I’m done with work tea. This is my I’m getting ready for bed tincture blend. And that’ll go a long way towards also improving your quality of sleep, which is then going to improve your capacity to cope with stress the following day. And so if the most basic nature of an adaptogenic anything is that it improves your capacity to cope with stress, then you’ve got to put sleep on that list.

Katja (00:44:38):
Mm-Hmm. Yeah.

Ryn (00:44:40):
It goes right there next to ginseng, and rhodiola, and tulsi. Yep.

Katja (00:44:44):
And especially because in periods of stress, quantity of sleep usually suffers. We need to make sure that quality of sleep is as high as possible, right? So that okay, I’m not getting very much sleep, but what I’m getting is very good. That’s what we’re trying to create a little balance.

Ryn (00:45:03):
So, these are places where we might not leap to the strongest, sedative, hypnotic herbs that we’ve got, right? To say okay, drive your body all day with eleuthero and ginseng. And then take wild lettuce and hops at 11:00 PM so that you can be asleep by 11:10. So first of all, that won’t really work very well, right? You’ve got to build in that plan of transition time, the whole sleep hygiene concept, you know? But also it would be worth the try to see if you can get the improvement you need in your ability to fall asleep, and to stay asleep, and improve the quality of it. If you can get that done with mental relaxants and mild sedative plants. Things like skullcap, passionflower, betony, these kinds of herbs that are just going to take away a little bit of that mental tension. Some physical as well, and some people feel that stronger than others. But primarily our choice of these is going to be like slow down the racing mind, the anxious circles, the going back over what I’ve just supposedly wrapped up for the day. Oh wait, maybe I should edit this. Oh wait, maybe I could do that better. Just let that go for a while. These kinds of herbs at that time of day.

Katja (00:46:17):
I think that is a really important point about the not swinging to the heaviest hypnotic herbs. And the key here is that stress is already jarring. And so we’re trying to create gentle curves if we can instead of huge spike in energy and then kind of an artificial or a not artificial but huge crash. And so okay, we’ll take a ton of red ginseng to get up and then a ton of hops and wild lettuce to get down. And then tomorrow a ton more red ginseng and a ton… Right? Instead let’s try and take as much stimulation as we need and try not to overshoot. And then let’s do as much relaxation as we need and try not to overshoot that either. Just so that we are not adding to our stress with more stress of overshooting every target in that huge, wide pendulum swing thing. Yeah.

Ryn (00:47:20):
Yeah. And you know, you do need a little experimentation on yourself to know how you’re going to respond to some of these sleep herbs. There are some people who can take wild lettuce, and they wake up, and they just feel fine. And they’re like good, that helped a ton. I’m ready to go. Others are going to take the same dose, the same herb, the same ratio, whatever, and be like wow, I’m groggy for three hours in the morning. So anyway, yeah, there’s variation there. But starting with your catnip, and your chamomile, and a little bit of blue vervain, you’re less likely to run into those kinds of issues.

Katja (00:47:53):
Yeah. Did you mention calamus here in this list?

Ryn (00:47:59):
I didn’t. I didn’t bring it up, yeah. Calamus is funny because we talked about digestive herbs. We talked about herbs to coordinate with your adaptogen formula. And now we’re talking here about nervine relaxants.

Katja (00:48:10):
And it’s calamus again.

Ryn (00:48:11):
There’s calamus again, yeah.

Katja (00:48:14):
Yeah, I really like calamus in this particular position because also it is going to address so many parts of the problem. So, it’s going to help with that shifting out of the high stress, adrenaline fight-or-flight kind of place into your rest-and-digest place. And so I really appreciate that. And also, at least in my body, like I said, when I’m really stressed out, my digestion slows down tremendously. So honestly, a little calamus at night helps to keep everything flowing the way that it should the next morning. So, that is just a side benefit. But it really is just kind of shifting the body into that sleep place. I really love calamus… No, what am I trying to say here? Chamomile and ginger before bed as well in terms of the anti-spasmodic action both in my brain and also in my body. But calamus goes fine in a chamomile and ginger blend. And if you put catnip in there too, then it’s good for you. It’s good for me. It’s good for everyone.

Ryn (00:49:37):
Yeah, totally. Calamus is an herb that can help you get into a meditative mindset. And so it could be that the way you’re going to work with calamus is I go from my busy job. I go to my busy commute. But I get off the bus one stop early, and I take a walk along this hopefully tree-lined stretch of sidewalk. I move my muscles. I move my blood. I breathe some fresh air. Do that mental processing that seems to go easiest when you’re moving through physical space. And then when I get home, I prepare myself a calamus, and ginger, and chamomile, and catnip drink. And I sip that while I do a releasing meditation. It’s like get a little guided thing or whatever. You just bring your mind through it, and it’s like all right. Let go of what I’ve been dealing with all day. Let that stuff go. I’ll get back to it tomorrow. Here I am now at home, ready to relax. Ready to take it easy and to recover from my day, you know? So, I’m trying to say think about these herbs not just as the thing itself. The medicine that I’m going to grab and take and get the effect of, right? But where does that fit into the rest of your day? What are you doing while you’re taking it? What is the purpose of that as a way to shift your mental and physical state? Yeah. All right.

Rest & the Pomodoro Method

Ryn (00:51:03):
So, we have a bunch of herbal plans. You’ve got your adaptogens that you’re focusing on. You’re being picky about which ones. You’re thinking about how you formulate them in the single remedy and in the protocol of the entire day. You’re thinking about the ways that your stress affects you. Do I need more digestive support? Do I need more nutritive support? Do I need more support just with letting go, and relaxing, and sleeping, and all that different stuff. And so we’ve got a good solid herbal plan. So let’s talk a little bit more about rest and its varieties.

Katja (00:51:35):
Yeah. I think that when you’re stressed out, you don’t really want to hear about rest because you feel like it’s not an option.

Ryn (00:51:42):
I’ll sleep when I’m dead.

Katja (00:51:45):
But there’s so many ways to define rest. And I think that it’s worth exploring that a little bit, especially if you’re in a period of prolonged stress. Because ultimately the goal is not to crank through it and never nap because I’m so strong. Ultimately, the goal is to get through this and do what you have to do. And you will do that better if you do find some ways to incorporate rest. So, rest can mean a huge spectrum of stuff. And I’m not actually going to talk about sleep this whole list of stuff.

Ryn (00:52:30):
You’ve heard of it. You’ve probably heard that it’s good for you, and it’s important to prioritize. And it’s a fundamental pillar of holistic health. And you’ve probably heard some of that.

Katja (00:52:39):
Yeah. You’ve probably heard it. Yeah. Heard it before. So, the first thing that I’m going to think about here is your eyes. Especially because again, for me, I associate periods of intense stress more with working on the computer, like a hard deadline. And of course that’s not every definition of stress, but that is the kind of stress that happens really frequently in my life. It’s that oh, I am late for this deadline or whatever. And so I need to stay up really late and crank this out. Well, that does a number on your eyes. And so even though it is really silly, looking away from your computer frequently is actually really important. And to try to look at different distances. Because the thing with the computer is not just the screen itself, but also that you are focused on one specific distance for a long period of time. And so your eyes kind of get stuck that way. So, it’s really important to look at things that are much further away, and medium far away, and all the different distances so that you are allowing the muscles around your eye to get through their whole range of motion.

Ryn (00:53:58):
Yeah. There’s muscles in the eye that change the shape of the lens and allow the light to be focused at different points. So that you can focus here, or there, or all the way far away. And it’s like any other muscle. If you hold it in a particular configuration long and long and long, it kind of gets stuck there. Now it’s a little harder to move it this way or that way. It loses some of the range of motion.

Katja (00:54:20):
Which means you lose your range of vision.

Ryn (00:54:23):
Right. So, this is not to say that all vision problems can be corrected by eye exercises, but some of them can. And more broadly it’s to say that if we’re going to spend a lot of time doing close work, then we should try to compensate for that by allowing our eyes the rest of focusing on something far, far, far away. Because that mode of looking at something far away is when those muscles are most relaxed. When you’re looking at something as close as you can, that’s when they’re most tense. Yeah.

Katja (00:54:53):
So okay, but here’s a practical way to do that. And that is the Pomodoro method, which you may have heard about. And if you have, and you did not like it, don’t roll your eyes. Hear me out here. So, pomodoro is Italian for tomato. And I don’t know if you remember back in the 70s those little kitchen timers. And they were shaped like tomatoes, and every kitchen had one. And so if you weren’t born yet in the 70s, then you probably don’t remember, but every kitchen had one. And that was how you did chores. Your mom would put the tomato timer to whatever time, and then you would do your chores. You’d have to get it done before the timer. Or maybe that was just my mom. But anyway, everybody had these tomato timers. And so that all is the background for this concept of productivity that is your brain can also not focus on the same thing forever because it starts to lose its ability to focus. And so they did studies. And what they found was that human brains have cycles of focus. And a convenient cycle for a human brain to focus, for many human brains, is about 25 minutes. If you’re going to really focus on something for 25 minutes and then take a break for five minutes. And then come back to it for 25 minutes of real focus and then take a break for five minutes. And that when you go on a cycle like that, it allows you to work longer and more deeply because you’re getting those little mini breaks.

Katja (00:56:45):
And the cool thing about this is that it became very popular in business circles. And so this is where my whole master plan comes in. If you work in an office or whatever, and you want to be able to take some breaks for your eyes and also for your brain, and also to get like mini breaks in for resting. And you tell your boss no, every 25 minutes I’m just going to take a five-minute break. Your boss might be like no, I’m not into that. But if you go to your boss and say I’m really excited. I’m going to implement Pomodoro method to increase my productivity. Then your boss will be like ah, you’re increasing your productivity. This is great. And it had its moment in the sun among management’s school of thought of how great this method is. And it never really crashed from that moment in the sun because honestly, it does work. And so getting this rhythm of getting yourself accustomed to working in these blocks. There’s a million apps for these Pomodoro timers. Or you can get an actual little timer too. Or you can just get a kitchen timer and set it to whatever amount of time you want. Or you can set it on your phone, or your watch, or whatever. But the key is that you are building in these rest cycles, not just for your eyes, but also for your brain, and also for your body. Because if you’re going to do that, you can now stand up and wiggle around just a little bit. And touch your toes a couple times and whatever before you sit back down to crank it out.

Ryn (00:58:29):
Right. And this is all connected, right? The fact that you’re more likely to get up and move a little bit if you have this five-minute break built in is one of the reasons why it makes it easier for you to focus when you do sit back down again. A lot of what we experience in our minds is happening in our bodies. When we feel stuck, when we feel fogged, when we feel like we’re packed in cotton. And it’s hard to really see the brightness or the sharpness in the world. Some of that may be because we’re getting physically bogged down, like literal stagnation of the blood. Because it needs the movement of the whole skeletal muscles of the body in order to flow thoroughly all the way through, to get everywhere it needs to go. Including to the liver and kidneys for a little cleanup. Including to your brain to bring in the oxygen and the nutrients there that keep that machine running. So, when we break up periods of sedentary time, we naturally find it easier to keep on going, to stay present, to stay focused. And none of this is new probably to you, probably to anybody. Certainly not to humanity as a whole, right? Breaks from work are something that you can find as far back as people have been keeping records. Actually, the earliest known record of a trade union dispute with their management is an ancient Egyptian papyrus. Saying we’re not going to work like this until you give us some more beer and some more breaks. And it’s a grand old tradition, folks. You can keep that one up today, even if it’s just you who is the manager in question.

Alarms to Help Break Cycles

Katja (01:00:10):
Yeah, true. The other really excellent thing here in terms of providing rest for your body. Or I think more I mean restoration. Is that when you get up and move around, even if it’s just a quick wiggle. Even if it’s like you just get up, and you do a couple of hokey pokies, and then you sit back down again. It’s lymphatic action. And if you can keep your lymphatic fluids moving so that you’re not getting stagnation and trash stuck in whatever places of your body, right? You are keeping everything flowing, and at least the trash is getting moved out, right? Then you are also creating space for fresh nutrients to get all the way through your body. Which means that everything that you’re using up is going to be easier to replace. Of course, you’ve got to also eat the nutrients, but okay, fine. But it’s going to be a lot easier to get it there because there’s no stagnant pools of trash that haven’t been taken out. So, all of this, just by implementing this concept of a work block and a break block and maintaining that rhythm, you are ensuring that so many different processes in your body are actually functioning better, so that everything has what it needs to keep going.

Ryn (01:01:38):
Yeah. A key thing here, and why you might find an app to help you with this cycle, doing a Pomodoro routine, or some other I’m going to work and then I’m going to break, some setup like that. It does help to have an alert, an alarm, an external signal. Rather than saying okay, I listened to Ryn and Katja talk. Seems like they’re onto something there. So I’m going to go ahead, and sit down at my computer, and bang out some work. But when I reach the 26th minute or the 50th minute or whatever, I’m going to give myself a break then, and I’m going to walk around the house. You probably won’t do it, right? You’ll fall into your habit. You’ll fall into the pattern. And you’ll end up there for a few hours. And then your back will hurt, and your eyes will be strained, and you’ll be grumpy, right? That’s normally the way that goes. So, giving yourself an external cue is really, really helpful there. And that can be helpful in other ways also. One way is if you’re trying to give yourself a break from something that you’re a little bit addicted to, like the news, or the social media, or the infinite scroll, right? You can set up a limit for yourself, right? Most of the phones have software built in, or you can get an extra thing added on that says only let me look at this app for this many minutes a day. And then tell me that I shouldn’t be looking at it anymore, right? Or some of the more extreme ones will totally block it entirely. And you’d have to smash your phone to get in again or something like that. But this is again, the link is this is an external way to reinforce and to re-encourage you to do what you are planning on, and what you’ve decided in advance was going to be a good move. Yeah.

Katja (01:03:23):
All right. A couple other ways to rest that aren’t about alarms, and work cycles, and whatever else… Well no, sorry, not ready to move forward quite yet because two more things here. One is sometimes people say, alarms don’t work for me. Remember, there’s lots of kinds of alarms. Maybe an auditory alarm is not what you need, but a visual alarm would work better. You can get alarms that make your phone flash. You can get alarms that are visual in nature. And that might work better for you than an auditory alarm. Or a tactile alarm might work better for you. So, in that case you could have your watch or your phone buzz at you when it’s time. Everybody is attentive to different types of stimuli. And so if you’re not most attentive to an auditory stimuli, and you’re like this alarm idea isn’t going to work. There’s other kinds of alarms, so that’s okay.

Ryn (01:04:22):
Yeah. What I find most effective is if the alarm is across the room, so I have to already stand up if I’m going to go get it. Because now I’m standing. And that’s much easier than like oh, it rings. Grab it, hit it. Okay. Back to what I’m doing.

Katja (01:04:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And then the other thing that I wanted to say real quick before we moved on was that all of this works for harder work as well, like physical work as well, except it’s going to be inverted, right? So, you’re going to do your work block. And then you’re going to take your five minutes to just lay flat on the ground. You’ve been picking up rocks for however long or working in the garden. Well, for me picking up rocks is working in the garden. But whatever you’ve been doing for however long, do it for 20, 25 minutes. Lay down for even two minutes, three minutes and stretch something or whatever. And maybe even close your eyes. It’s okay. And then when the thing goes off, okay, now I’m going to get up, and I’m going to pick up some rocks again. Putting in breaks like that can really help reduce the amount of stress fatigue that you feel at the end of the day. So that your recovery at the end of the day is not so intense because you had little bursts of recovery throughout the day.

Feed Yourself Well & Don’t Do Everything

Katja (01:05:42):
Okay. Yeah. So, now kinds of rest that aren’t to do with work blocks, and alarms, and all those things. I think one of the most important ways to rest is to feed yourself. During stressful times we tend to want to eat sugar, and salt, and carbs, and junk food. And that’s not because you’re bad. It’s because that’s what your body is craving. It’s easy to digest. It’s easy energy. It’s energy that your body doesn’t have to work very hard to get. And that’s not bad. If you need a little chocolate to keep going, if you need a little whatever to keep going, do what you’ve got to do. But also give yourself good broth. Give yourself plenty of vegetables. Give yourself plenty of protein, because that matters a lot. Whether you are doing mental energy stuff or physical energy stuff, having plenty of protein really matters. And a lot of times we think about physical work as oh, I am going to burn a ton of calories today moving those rocks around. But mental work also burns a ton of calories. Your brain is hungry. Your brain burns a ton of calories. So, really making sure that we’re supporting whatever it is that we are doing with enough calories and enough good quality nutrients. And if some chips happen, then also they happen. Okay, fine. It is going to be really important.

Ryn (01:07:16):
Yeah. So, that’s a really broad range of options, nutritive food. Okay, go. And if you’re just not sure where to start at all, and it appeals, then maybe you start with that broth we were talking about earlier. It could be a way for you to get a few more or a different range of adaptogenic herbs into your life. It can be a definite way for you to get some nutritive elements like the nettles and the seaweeds, some other supportive roots and things like that into your body. So, it’s more than just nutrition, as if that weren’t enough. But it can be really comprehensive, right? Providing protein, minerals, fats, all that kind of good stuff to you at the same time in a quick package that’s ready to go. And once it’s prepared, you can just heat it and drink it. You’re all set. So, that’s one that we often come back to when it comes to nutritive food.

Katja (01:08:11):
That’s such a good place to start. And then if you want more after that, well, I’m sure that we have talked about it a million times on the pod. And also there is the Holistic Nutrition course, and it’s packed full of really good food suggestions. So, I want to move on to resting by not doing things that you don’t want to do. And so we’ll leave food right there because there’s a lot of other resources for that. But when we are looking at all the stuff that has to be done, and we’re overwhelmed. And we’re like I’m so stressed out, there’s so much stuff. I can’t do it all, but I have to do it all. Okay. Well, one way you can rest is by looking at the whole list of all the things that you have to do and only you can do and just throw some of them out. Just don’t do some. Because honestly, at the end of the day, you weren’t really going to get it done anyway. So, why not gleefully pitch the things you really don’t want to do? Maybe it’s the laundry, maybe it’s the dishes. Just don’t do it. That’s fine. Pick the thing that’s most important, get that done. And if the dishes didn’t get done, then they don’t. Or get somebody else to do them. You might think that your husband won’t do the dishes for you, but they’re his dishes too. So, just remind him that they’re his dishes too. And that you have this big, huge thing that you have to get done. And he can live in a house with messy dishes, or he can get takeout for the family so that there aren’t any dishes. Also a really good option.

Ryn (01:09:52):
Yeah. Did you notice that she started this off saying the list of things that need to get done, and that only you can do? That’s different than the list of things that you’d like to see done in a day. Sometimes that’s very different. It depends on how you’re living, and who you’re living with, and a bunch of other facets like that. But sometimes there are things that should get done today, but somebody else can do them. And maybe they’re not used to it, and maybe you’re not used to it, but that still might be the best thing.

Katja (01:10:20):
I think that deserves a few more sentences. Maybe they’re not used to it. And maybe it’s not going to be easy for them to say sure, I’d be happy to do that for you. And maybe they are your teenage kids or whatever else. And you might be thinking it’s going to be so much work just to get them to do it. It’s never going to be worth it. Maybe it is worth it. So, I just throw that out there. Maybe it is worth it. And then the flip side of that is maybe you’re not used to letting somebody else do it for you. Yeah. They’re not going to do it exactly how you do it. They’re not. They’re probably not going to do it right. But having it done not right, not exactly the way you would do it, right? Isn’t having it done but not exactly the way you would do it, better than not having it done at all? Like if the dishes get done, but they loaded the dishwasher wrong. But whatever. They’re clean, and they’re back in the cabinet ready to use again. Did you ever even have to know that they loaded the dishwasher wrong? You didn’t even have to look actually. So, if it’s hard for you to watch members of your family do things that aren’t the way that you would do them, just don’t watch. And just let it get done anyway, even if it’s not entirely the most perfect way on the planet. You didn’t do it. You could be doing something else. And that’s good. Yeah.

Ryn (01:11:46):
Yeah. Okay.

Katja (01:11:50):
All right. And also sleep when you get the chance to, that’s all we need to say there. Don’t spend your time scrolling when you could be sleeping. Try really hard. Okay.

Ryn (01:12:01):
Do what you can. Yeah.

Katja (01:12:03):
Yeah.

Questions to Consider When Reaching for an Adaptogen

Ryn (01:12:04):
So, with all of that in mind, here’s a few questions that you can ask yourself when you realize that you’re starting to reach for an adaptogen. Or you’re mentally saying to yourself I need something to cope with this stress. What can we do then?

Katja (01:12:18):
And this is not ask yourself these questions so that you don’t take adaptogens. This is allow adaptogens to be a signal for you that you are in a stressful situation. And that maybe that means you need some support, right? So, the adaptogens here are just the signal to you that you can be looking for ways to get support.

Ryn (01:12:44):
So, you know, the first question is what is going on for me right now? I’m feeling stressed, I’m feeling unsettled. I’m feeling like I need some kind of help. And because I’m herb informed, I’m thinking about adaptogens already, but why? What is it that’s driving me that way? It might seem super immediately obvious. Like well Ryn, I’m stressed because of work. Okay. What’s going on at work? Is it always this stressful? Is it a stressful period of time, and you know that there’s going to be a limit on that at some point? Is it that things are changing, and they’re uncertain? And you’re not sure what’s going to happen with your department over the next month or whatever, right? Just trying to define it is helpful. It gives you some information you can work with as you go forward.

Katja (01:13:26):
Yeah. If it is something that you know has an end. Then once you have identified that, it also can help you say okay. At the end I know that I need to take a break. Because it’s really easy for us to be in periods of stress. And as they come to a close just slide into the next period of stress. And if you get the opportunity to say oh, I’m wicked stressed out right now. I know because I’ve been taking adaptogens for three days now, and I’m taking more. Then okay, I have identified that this is actually a thing that I should probably identify. I should probably know what it is so that I can do something different when it’s over. Or maybe it won’t end. Maybe you’re in a job that is just so stressful and terrible, and you’re starting to realize the impact it’s having on your body. And you say okay, this job is never going to change. It’s always going to be stressful and terrible. Perhaps a different job would be better for me. And it’s not always easy to switch jobs. Sometimes it’s really, really hard. But sometimes also just acknowledging that it is time to switch jobs, even if it takes a whole year to do it, can actually be helpful. Because you’re realizing that you’re on the way to making a change instead of feeling like there’s no change available.

Ryn (01:14:52):
Yeah. Or that same circumstance could lead you to say okay, well I’ve enjoyed taking the most stimulating adaptogen in the strongest format I can find. But since I know that this stress is not a sprint. It is a marathon, and I’m not really sure where the finish line is. I need to be focusing more on adaptogens that are focused on stamina rather than outright stimulation.

Katja (01:15:18):
Yeah. Good.

Ryn (01:15:19):
So yeah, so what’s going on for me right now? And then number two, is there something I could be doing differently? Also difficult, right, to see what could be different when you’re in the middle of things, especially when you’re in the middle of stressful things. It seems like this is just the universe cursing me, and it’s not going to go away ever. I’m stuck. But trying to start doing these in this order, starting with what is going on, can help you to identify what could be changed, what is movable.

Katja (01:15:53):
And could I be doing something differently? The answer to that can look so many ways. It could be things from like yeah, I could be pawning off the housework on somebody else. Whether it’s my teenagers. Whether it’s somebody else in the household. Or maybe we hire somebody for a period of time just so that I can get a little bit of a break. Okay. Yes, that’s one option. Maybe it’s all the way through to it’s time for me to be looking for another job. Maybe it’s somewhere in the middle. Like all right, I can’t change these situations. But I could take a sick day once a month and just let myself sleep and watch silly movies. And really not try to clean the house that day or anything else but just wrap up in a blanket and sleep for a day. Because that will help me with the stamina to keep going, right? So, what you could be doing differently could look so many different ways. And so try to see as many options as you possibly can, even though that’s super hard to do under stress. But allow yourself to acknowledge what you wish could happen. Because maybe it actually could, or a little bit of it could. And maybe you could take a sick day and just wrap in a burrito blanket on the couch. You don’t have to clean the whole house on your sick day. That’s okay. Or maybe it would feel good to clean the whole house. Everybody’s different. But yeah, so what could I be doing differently? Is there anything that I could be doing differently? Yeah.

Ryn (01:17:31):
Okay. And then the next question to ask is what is the most important thing right now? And you kind of previewed this already saying if you pick that most important thing, then that allows you to set some other stuff aside. Because you can remind yourself it’s not the most important thing, right?

Katja (01:17:47):
Yeah.

Ryn (01:17:49):
And you can just set that aside. You can say all right, I’m not going to work on that right now. I’m not going to do the dishes today. They’ll get done when they have to get done. And until then I’m not going to stress out about it, right? So, you can make space for yourself that way. You can also ask for support. If you’ve got people in the house, people around you, friendly neighbors, friendly friends who pop by, whatever. If you can clearly say this is the most important thing that I’ve got to focus on right now. I need to get this done. That can lead you to you could help me by taking care of the kids for a couple of hours. You could help me by making some food and bringing it over for us to eat together. You could help me by just listening to me vent for a while, right? Whatever.

Katja (01:18:37):
Yeah. Picking up some groceries when you go to the grocery store this week, whatever. Yeah. I think one of the other really important things about identifying the most important thing is that it allows you a little bit of freedom from the feelings – whether they’re guilt, or shame, or self-punishment, or whatever else – that you get at the end of the day when you didn’t do it all, right? You were never going to do it all. No 10 people were going to do it. All that list was way too long. And yet at the end of the day don’t you just sit there and tell yourself how bad you are and how terrible you are because you didn’t. Even though it was never going to happen. It wasn’t reasonable to begin with. And so if you have identified a single most important thing for your day. And you say you know what? No matter what else happens, this one thing needs to get done today. At the end of the day, if that’s the only thing that got done, there’s no shame in that. There’s nothing. You look at it and well, I identified the most important thing. I did the most important thing. Good job, me. Or I identified the most important thing. I recognized it was going to take three days. Today I did about a third of it. Good job, me. It takes out that whole self-punishment aspect, which you just don’t need. It’s a stressful time. The last thing you need is to be cutting yourself down on top of it all. So, I don’t know. I just feel like that’s really important.

Ryn (01:20:17):
Yeah. So, this is a podcast episode about adaptogens. And we’ve spent however many minutes here this is talking about your mindset, and your mentality, and your self-talk, and the way you structure your time. And I don’t want you to see those as shoehorned into the discussion. We want you to see these as all the same topic, all the same set of considerations. When you were reaching for the adaptogens or trying to decide which one was best for you, you were responding to what you were observing about yourself, what you were experiencing in the moment. So, essentially what we’re talking about is giving that piece of the situation some more intentional attention. Giving yourself some time and some mental space to dig in a little bit further into that. And not just be like I’m stressed out. What can I grab? What’s going to take my stress away? What’s going to make it easy for me? But to dig in a little more into the type of stress you’re experiencing and the factors that are playing into it. Also, considering the things you already know help you. Trying to look beyond what I can swallow that’s going to keep me going.

Katja (01:21:33):
You’re not a machine. It feels like it sometimes, right, because we have to crank it out so much, whatever it is. It’s everything. You’ve got to get the kids where they’re going. You’ve got to get the dinner on the table. You’ve got to do the thing at work. You’ve got to then go pick up the whatever. There’s never a break from cranking it out. But that’s broken. There should be breaks. And just because we live in a society where there isn’t a break doesn’t mean that that’s actually okay. And I don’t know, acknowledging that a little bit is important. And not just thinking I’m just going to grab this thing that’s going to push me harder, push me harder all the time. There will come a point where you can’t push harder. So, doing all this work to support yourself, to sustain what you’re trying to build, and also to acknowledge what’s going on for you is just going to make it easier to not crash.

Ryn (01:22:42):
Yeah. All right. Well this discussion of adaptogens and also of stress more broadly as the topic under discussion here is one that fits really nicely in with our course on Neurological and Emotional Health. So, in that course we don’t only talk about stress and anxiety but also depression, and grief, and mental fatigue, and brain fog as well as things that are more on the nerve side than the emotion side. So, you know, tingling in the hands and feet, or issues with nerve signal transmission and stuff like that. All of those fit together. Because if there’s any system of the body that proves to us that our body and mind are not separate, it’s got to be the nervous system, right? Yeah.

Katja (01:23:34):
Yes. So, you can find that along with all of our courses at online.commonwealththerbs.com. And if you’re out there thinking man, this was a great podcast episode. I love this podcast. I want to support them. The Neurological and Emotional Health course is a great way to do that because it supports us. And it supports you because you are going to be learning so many amazing things to support your neurological and emotional health.

Ryn (01:24:03):
So, the link will be in the show notes. And that’s it for this episode. Thanks for listening. We’ll be back soon with some more episodes for you. Until then, take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Drink some tea.

Katja (01:24:17):
Drink some tea.

Ryn (01:24:19):
Drink some broth. Get some sleep if you can. And if you can’t, well, you’ve heard a bunch of other strategies already, so you’re good to go. Bye everyone.

Katja (01:24:29):
Bye-bye.